Before I begin, I want to pre-empt this with a disclaimer. In no way do I mean to offend anyone, I am not judging, nor am I attacking anyone. I am simply putting my thoughts out there because I truly am curious. That being said, if you are offended by anything I have to say here I apologize in advance.
My TFT this week is about marriage vows, infidelity and divorce. I come from a place where a marriage vow is forever. Infidelity is morally wrong and divorce is out of the question, not even an option. Both Brian and I firmly believe that the vows we said to each other 4 years ago are solid and everlasting. Not even for a second do I think that Brian could/would have an affair and he knows the same about me.
All that being said, does anyone who experiences this think it will happen to them? If you truly know a person and marry them, shouldn't you know they won't dishonor those vows? I guess I'm just wondering if there are signs that point in that direction and if deep down the victims of this infidelity know it will happen?
I can ask the same of divorce. If you are divorced, did you somehow know in the beginning that it may end up this way? I ask because I don't think I will ever get divorced. Perhaps that's naive of me, but I truly believe it won't happen. I would like to believe that nobody goes into marriage thinking: "Hey, if it doesn't work, there's always divorce." However, I know that more often than not, people do take marriage lightly and know there is an out if things go awry. I'd like to believe that you gave it your all, did everything in your power to make it work but just couldn't find common ground. Even though I don't believe in divorce (for myself), I don't think it is right for the wrong people to remain married for any reason (even kids).
I am reading a book called "Eat, Pray, Love" by Elizabeth Gilbert and she makes an interesting comment about her marriage ending (or lack thereof because of a rocky divorce). Here is the letter:
Dear God,
Please intervene and help end this divorce. My husband and I have failed at our marriage and now we are failing at our divorce. This poisonous process is bringing suffering to us and to everyone who cares about us.
I recognize that you are busy with wars and tragedies and much larger conflicts than the ongoing dispute of one dysfunctional couple. But it is my understanding that the health of the planet is affected by the health of every individual on it. As long as even one or two souls can be free from discord, this will increase the general health of the whole world, the way a few healthy cells in a body can increase the general health of that body.
It is my most humble request, then, that you help us end this conflict, so that two more people can have the chance to become free and healthy, and so there will be just a little bit less animosity and bitterness in a world that is already far too troubled by suffering.
She has a point. If you look at all of us as interconnected, even one unhappy person can cause a chain reaction. I'm sure she never thought she'd be divorced and unhappy, if so, my guess is she wouldn't have gotten married in the first place.
As you can see by my ramblings is that I'm very confused about all of this. For my own sake, I'd like to believe that those who are divorced or unfaithful knew somewhere down the line, or even before the vows were taken. But, I know that could not possibly be the case for everyone. Share your thoughts, and if you are comfortable, share your experiences. Thanks to all.
Love your new layout! Have a great weekend :)
Posted by: Mary | April 25, 2008 at 08:20 AM
My parents and in-laws have both been married 30+ years and have wonderful marriages, so I feel like my husband and I have great examples.
I remember when we went to pre-marriage counseling at church, and we had to fill out this questionnaire about our beliefs, how we saw our lives playing out, etc. I was absolutely shocked to find that some of the other couples there had far from the same answers. Tom and I answered almost exactly the same for every. single. question... because we had TALKED about everything before we had even made the decision to get married. I guess some people don't communicate things as well, and I think that's a big key to a successful marriage.
I've also seen people who have dated forever, maybe moved in together, whatever, and then the next step is to just get married. When it may have been a better choice to just go their separate ways. But it's easier to just let things evolve like that, instead of changing your whole life up, being alone, etc. I don't think that's a good basis for a marriage either, and I think that's sadly common.
Posted by: Kim | April 25, 2008 at 07:57 AM
I firmly believe that I went into my marriage for the long haul. I think there is some way to make it work if you married for the right reasons. I think cheating can be a deal breaker, but even then I think I would try. I say I'd be gone, but I don't know. I do know a number of people that you knew going into it were going to end up divorced. You almost wanted to start a pool, sad, but true. My parents are divorced, I don't know if it was empty nest or what, because it was their 25th anniversary when they said they were separating. I think they are better apart, I know they really love each other, they just cannot live together anymore. I get that and don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Posted by: Robyn | April 24, 2008 at 09:08 PM
I've often found myself wondering the same things Michelle.
I have a hard time with the issue of divorce. For me, it is not even an option. Or if it came to that it would be in light of a very extreme, unforeseen situation. ie, life changing thing like abuse, some crazy personality/religious changes (like mentioned in previous comment) that are impossible to get past, and the like.
To just say we've grown apart or changed or fallen out of love just doesn't cut it for me personally. Making the decision to get married is very serious to me, as is the marriage itself. If we are unhappy, if we are not working well together, if there are issues there, in my opinion that is not a reason to give up. I think it's a sad thing that it is so easy to decide to and to get divorced in this day and age. I think in a way, you should have to "earn" a divorce. Especially if there are children involved. I think both spouses need to come to a point that they are willing to honestly try, to put in the time and the effort to restore their marriage. If you're divorcing without having been through counseling or help in some way like that? I think that's a pretty sad effort. I think divorce is often the easy way out. And the sad thing is, that's not all that easy either, so why not put some effort into making sure you can't get something good out of your marriage?
The other thing that bothers me is when people joke about divorce or throw that idea around casually. Like when a couple is fighting or when one spouse talks about the other and whether they're joking or halfway serious, they make a flip remark about "packing up and leaving" or "cuz he knows I'd divorce him", etc. It bugs me because even in a halfway joking manner, that thought should not be there. In my mind it's not even an option and certainly not something to just toss around like it's a common thought for married couples these days.
Anyway, I realize everyone's different, every relationship is different, and everyone's view on it all is different. It's an interesting thing to hear different perspectives, that's for sure!
Posted by: heather | April 24, 2008 at 08:57 PM
man, i sure would like to believe that there isn't anyone that goes into their marriage thinking it won't last. that kind of defeats the whole purpose of getting married doesn't it? with that being said...
we all know that some people make mistakes in their marriages. it is up to that couple to decide what is best for them and i guess i'm not someone to judge them for their decision because really - how do i know what their marriage was like? if they think divorce is the option they need to use, fine. if they work through it, great. no two relationships are ever alike.
my parents divorced but i still value the lessons i learned from what they went through. matt's parents have been married for 30 years. they are role models to us as well. different things can be learned from both situations.
interesting topic.
Posted by: jenny | April 24, 2008 at 08:35 PM
I would never in a million years be with someone who I thought would cheat on me, let alone marry him. (The thought makes me sick). I think marriage vows should be sacred, but i have also seen/heard of situations that were really horrible. I think if you find yourself in that situation, counseling is usually a better option than divorcing, but not always.
Posted by: Kristi S | April 24, 2008 at 12:45 PM
As a child of divorce, I sometimes have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that marriages can last forever. :p I know that it makes it a lot harder for me to trust that things can work out and that people really can be happy together. I've been lucky enough to have more recent experiences with people with solid, working marriages.
Posted by: Hope | April 24, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Michelle~I didn't marry Jade hoping that our marriage would work. When we said our vows, that was it.
Marriage isn't easy and I think people tend to just throw in the towel and give up.
I have been meaning to write you this week. It's been a busy week. I had a seminar on Tuesday, my Aunt is in from Florida and Jade has been extremely busy and not home this week. Augh! :) I'll talk to you soon.
Posted by: Leslie Collins | April 24, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Great topic! I thought I would comment because I also take my vows VERY seriously, however... at one point in our marriage my husband and I seperated. I can honestly say I think I fell out of love. He was very hurtful with words and spent most of his time away from us. I just couldn't connect with him anymore. After a very tough time and not living together for about 9 months, watching him change and return to the man I married, I fell back in love with my husband. I guess I think if that he had stayed the "way he was" before he seperated I would have filed for divorce. It was so toxic at the time, both for me and my daughter. He never cheated just didn't put a thing into the marriage and his words stung to the point where I was hating myself. Three years have passed and things are still great. I know both of us changed a lot during that time we were seperated and realized how sacred our marriage really is. Something that I want to teach my kids as they grow and someday choose a mate, I think it's really important to watch what relationships were modeled for their prospective spouse as they were growing up. I think this has a lot to do with how you view your own marriage as an adult. kwim? Also, I think it makes a huge difference for some if you wait until you are older to get married. We got married pretty young and now that I am 28, I see things in a much different light than I did at say 22. Again, great topic!
Posted by: Kari | April 24, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Good topic Michelle!
I take marriage and vows very seriously. There were things/issues I needed to know from my husband before I could have walked down the aisle. For instance, did he someday want children. No matter how much I love him, I wouldn't have married him had he told me "no, I don't want children." I'm sure this is the case (meaning sorting out of issues) for many people. However, I am shocked by some who haven't. I have a friend who wanted children. Her husband told her no, and she has resigned to the fact that they won't have them. Not because she doesn't want them but because HE doesn't want them. This was decided AFTER getting married. I'm getting off the subject here.
I went into my marriage as "this is it." I have two very good examples in my life.....my parents and my inlaws. Both have been married for 35+ years. If they can do it, I can do it. I know my parents have face a lot harder times than I ever probably will, but they did it. And I really believe that my husband and I will too. I'd like to think if times get tough, we will exhaust all possible means to make it work before ever throwing in the towel, which I don't think will happen. I will admit that being married is a lot harder than I ever imagined. It's a full time job 24/7 and just like Jessica said, it needs 100% from both. Not 50/50.
As far as infidelity goes........I agree, it is morally wrong. While I don't think divorce is an option for me, I do believe it is an option for some. I think people can change. For instance, I know a girl who got married and shortly after her husband started following some crazy religious stuff (locking himself in his room, not participating in family things, et. etc. it is far worse than I'm describing) I don't think she saw it coming. All the signs came out AFTER she got married. I think they did try to work things out at first but it didn't get better. She was young, and divorced him. For her, I think it was the best thing she could have done for herself. I don't think divorce should be looked at as an easy way out, but I think for some it is a life saving option.
Sorry for such a long post!
Posted by: Mary | April 24, 2008 at 10:17 AM
i wanted to add one more thing that i meant to say in my previous comment...
people grow, and change. everything and everybody changes. during that process, if both parties aren't making the effort to grow together and take into account the other's needs as they grow, that leads to a toxic relationship. the whole "looking together in the same direction" thing applies. that's really how it needs to be. and sometimes people are selfish and self-serving and that just can't be achieved.
Posted by: jessica | April 24, 2008 at 10:06 AM
hi... i'm divorced. i had no idea that it would have ended that way. not in the slightest. i took it VERY seriously. but a couple of years into it, without two people fully involved in being committed to the union, it simply could not work out. marriage is not 50/50, it's 100/100. the more committed person cannot pick up the slack, no matter how much they try. i really don't want to go into gory details here, but i think i've summed it up.
i don't think in general people enter into it thinking hey, this might not work, but what the hell --- but i do think there are those that take it waaay too lightly. i've seen it, and i've seen train wrecks of relationships enter into a marriage situation, and i think, how can they not know this will end badly?
now, i am also remarried, and i know this is it. how can i, you ask ~ because it didn't work for me the first time? well, because i have a partner who is as committed as i, and shows me every single day. and we actually went to counseling together BEFORE we were married. preventative maintenance. i highly recommend ;)
good topic.
Posted by: jessica | April 24, 2008 at 09:47 AM